You can listen to recordings of events here
Just click on the file to either stream (listen online) or download.
Many many thanks to Mark Newman for recording and editing.
Authors represented below are listed here in order; please scroll down to download or listen: Anne Summers, Melissa Fagan, Shelley Davidow, Kerry O’Brien, Gillian Triggs, Patrick Nunn, Kristina Olsson, Josepha Dietrich, Gareth Evans, Steven Lang, A C Grayling, Shelley Davidow, Malachy Tallack, Richard Fidler, Kari Gislason, Mireille Juchau, Elspeth Muir, Magda Szubanski, Paul Williams, Tim Flannery, Kate Holden, Kate Grenville, Olivera Simic, John Birmingham, Andrew MacMillen, Henry Reynolds, Ellen van Neerven, Graeme Simsion, Sally Piper, Karen Joy Fowler, Claire Dunn. All authors are in conversation with Steven Lang.
Anna Funder June 25th 2019
Before turning to writing full-time in the late 1990’s, Anna Funder worked as an international lawyer for the Australian Government, focusing on human rights, constitutional law, and treaty negotiation. After jettisoning her legal career to write Stasiland, she jobbed for a time as a radio and television documentary producer at the ABC.
Stasiland describes the period Anna spent in the former East Germany, after the wall came down. It tells the stories of people who heroically resisted the communist dictatorship of East Germany, and of people who worked for its secret police, the Stasi. Shortlisted for many awards in Australia and Britain, in 2004 Stasiland won the world’s most significant prize for non-fiction, the Samuel Johnson Prize. Hailed as ‘a masterpiece’ and ‘a classic,’ Stasiland has been published in 25 countries and translated into 16 languages, adapted for radio and CD in the UK and Australia.
In 2011 Anna published the novel All That I Am, set in pre-war Britain. When Hitler comes to power in 1933, a tight-knit group of friends and lovers become hunted outlaws overnight. United in their resistance to the madness and tyranny of Nazism, they find refuge in London. Here they take breath-taking risks in order to continue their work in secret. But England is not the safe-haven they think it to be, and a single, chilling act of betrayal will tear them apart… Based on real people and events, All That I Am is a masterful and exhilarating exploration of bravery and betrayal, of the risks and sacrifices some people make for their beliefs, and of heroism hidden in the most unexpected places. All That I Am went on to win many awards, including the Miles Franklin.
Anna lives in Sydney with her husband and three children.
1 hr 15 mins
Mary Garden June 25th 2019
Mary Garden was born and raised in New Zealand, but has lived in Australia for much of her adult life. She also spent several years in India, on a spiritual quest. Her experiences in that country were the subject of her first memoir The Serpent Rising: a journey of spiritual seduction. She moved to Maleny in 1989 and has had strong connections to the town ever since.
Her new book, Sundowner of the Skies, is a memoir/biography of her father, a famous aviator who achieved notoriety when he became the youngest and most inexperienced pilot to fly solo from England to Australia. Fellow pilots ranked his 1930 flight along with the achievements of Charles Kingsford Smith and Amy Johnson. Writing the book was a journey of discovery for Mary. Until she started her research she knew little of his life and his extraordinary history.
Anne Summers March 3rd 2019
I was born into a world that expected very little of women like me. We were meant to tread lightly on the earth, influencing events through our husbands and children, if at all. We were meant to fade into invisibility as we aged. I defied all of those expectations and so have millions of women like me.’
Anne Summers has been prominent in Australian media, politics and feminist activism for more than four decades. She is the author of eight books, including the remarkable Damn Whores and God’s Police, still in print forty-four years after it was first published.
Anne has had a remarkable career. She has been Editor of Good Weekend, written for the Australian Financial Review, Far Eastern Economic Review, Le Monde and the National Times. She is currently a regular contributor to what was recently the Fairfax Press. She is the winner of a Walkley Award for journalism and, in the United States, where she lived from 1986-1992, she was Editor in Chief of Ms Magazine. She was a political advisor to Prime Minister Paul Keating and ran the Office of the Status of Women in the Hawke Labor government. For six years she was chair of Greenpeace International.
Her other books include Gamble for Power, Ducks on a Pond and the recently released Unfettered and Alive, a memoir, which she discusses here with Steven Lang.
approximately 1 hr.
Melissa Fagan March 3rd 2019
For all who know Brisbane, McWhirters, a once celebrated department store in Fortitude Valley, is an icon. For Melissa Fagan it is also the starting point for a remarkable exploration of her mother and grandmother’s lives, a poignant reminder of the ways in which retail stores and fashion have connected women’s lives across the decades.
Behind the dusty shop counters of an Art Deco treasure, Melissa discovered both what had been lost and what continued to shine. Her book is, ultimately, a tender exploration of self and family, speaking of the ways in which life surprises us and of how the legacies of others can truly enrich our own relationships and lives.
approx 15 mins
Shelley Davidow December 29 2018
Shelley discusses her recently published memoir Shadow Sisters.
During the terrifying years of Apartheid in South Africa, Shelley Davidow’s family was a crime. At a time when it was illegal for black and white people to live together, Shelley’s social activist parents took in Rosie, an abandoned black three-year-old. Rosie grew up as a beloved daughter and sister in a white household. Against the backdrop of racist laws and ever-present threats of violence, Shelley’s parents did all they could to provide a safe, happy home for their five children. But when Rosie was sixteen, devastating truths came to light, shattering the family’s understanding of the past.
'Davidow's memoir is not only a vivid, stark and resonant reminder of those days, but a rites-of-passage tale about growing up in the midst of violence and killing – as well as experiencing the pangs of first love.' Sydney Morning Herald
KERRY O’BRIEN DECEMBER 29 2018
In his intimate ground-breaking memoir, told with wit and insight, Kerry O’Brien reflects on the big events he has observed, on lessons learned and ignored, on the foibles and strengths of the public figures who construct our world. The end result is an engrossing study of a life lived in the public eye, a life intrinsically bound up in nearly three-quarters of a century of social and political history.
Kerry is one of Australia’s most respected journalists. He has won six Walkley awards including the Gold Walkley and the Walkley for outstanding leadership in journalism. In a career spanning more than fifty years, he has worked for a wire service, newspapers, television and as a foreign correspondent. Thirty-three of those years were at the ABC where he worked on current affairs programs such asThis Day TonightandFour Corners. He was the inaugural presenter of Lateline and the editor and presenter of 7.30 for fifteen years.
1 hour 16 mins
Gillian Triggs October 18 2018
Gillian Triggs has had a long and diverse career in International Law. Born in London she migrated along with her parents to Australia in 1958, when she was thirteen. She attended school in Melbourne and studied law at Melbourne University, then went to Texas to do a Masters in Law, working with the Dallas Police Force on the implementation of the Civil Rights Act. She completed a doctorate a decade or so later. In 1982 she was admitted to the Supreme Court of Victoria as a barrister and solicitor. Soon after that she joined Mallesons Stephen Jaques as a consultant on International law practicing with them for ten years before joining the Melbourne Law School as a professor of International Law. While there she produced papers on a range of subjects, including the WTO, energy and resources law, the law of the sea, international criminal law, international environmental law and human rights.
In 2007 she took on the role of Dean of the University of Sydney’s Law School. In 2012, as we all know, she was appointed the President of Australia’s Human Rights Commission, a position she held for five years. She is now the Acting Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Social Justice Commissioner and is here with us today to talk about her recently published memoir Speaking Up.
One hour and five minutes
Patrick Nunn october 18 2018
Patrick Nunn is here to talk about his recently published book The Edge of Memory, Ancient Stories, Oral Tradition and the Post-Glacial World.
Patrick is the author of several other books, including the popular Vanished Islands and Hidden Continents of the Pacific. He is, at present, Professor of Geography at the University of the Sunshine Coast but is well known for the work he undertook in the Pacific Islands where he was, for 25 years, part of the faculty of the University of the South Pacific, holding the positions of Professor of Oceanic Geoscience and pro-Vice Chancellor. His early work on the Quaternary geology and tectonics of many islands and island groups in Fiji, Samoa, Tonga and Vanuatu still represents the latest word on many of these issues today.
Patrick has been a member of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) on several occasions, and, in that role, he was a co-recipient of its 2007 Nobel Peace Prize. He has also been awarded the Gold Medal of the Royal Geographical Society of Queensland, and his world-class research in climate change has been extended with the announcement that he will be Lead Author on the ‘Small Islands’ chapter of the next Assessment Report of the IPCC, scheduled for completion in 2022.
Kristina Olsson October 10 2018
Kristina Olsson is a Brisbane-based writer. She worked as a journalist for many years, writing for The Australian, The Courier-Mail and The Sunday Telegraph. She has written both novels and memoirs, including The China Garden and Boy, Lost, the memoir about her mother and about Kristina’s missing brother, which won the 2014 NSW Premier's Prize for nonfiction and was shortlisted for the Stella Prize. Just this month Simon & Schuster have chosen Kristina’s new novel, Shell, to launch the literary imprint of Scribner in Australia.
Kristina has been to Maleny several times, some of you may remember her visiting Rosetta Books in the 2000s to talk about her novel In One Skin and the book she co-wrote with Debbie Kilroy, Kilroy was here.
Josepha Dietrich October 10 2018
We begin with Josepha Dietrich whose memoir In Danger was published by UQP earlier this year. By way of introduction I’m going to take the unusual step of reading the author note from the front of her book as a way of describing her because, honestly, I can’t think of a better description:
Josie Dietrich is an English immigrant to Australia. She lives in Brisbane in the home she and her partner built on passive house principles. After coming out of a long reign as a carer, she’s worked as a research assisant for universities on projects to improve psychiatric discharge planning and women’s wellness after cancer. Her prior long-term work was in the After Hours Child Protection Unit, assessing children’s risk of harm alongside the Sexual Offences and Child Abuse Unit of Victoria Police. To remain sane during this period, she flitted off overseas for months at a time to climb cliff faces while sleeping on beaches or in abandoned shepherd’s huts. After her cancer treatments finished and in light of her experience caring for her dying mother, Josie joined the advisory committee of CanSpeak Queensland as a cancer and consumer advocate.
This memoir, In Danger, is about her own journey through a diagnosis of breast cancer, following on from the death of her mother from the same disease fourteen years previously. It is not by any means a grim book, in fact it’s quite the opposite, probably, or possibly because of Josie’s familiarity with the illness and her lack of sentimentality towards it.
Gareth Evans December 10 2017
Gareth Evans was a representative for the Australian Labor Party in both the Senate and the House of Representatives for twenty-one years, from 1978 to 1999. During that time he served as a member of Cabinet for fourteen years in the Hawke and Keating governments, including seven and a half as Foreign Minister, a role in which, it is univerally acknowledged, he excelled.
After leaving politics he became President and CEO of the International Crisis Group from 2000 to 2009, during which period the organisation grew to become the pre-eminent international non-government organisation (NGO) working on the prevention and resolution of deadly conflict.
He is presently the Co-Chair of the international advisory organisation The Responsibility to Protect (R2P), from 2010 to 2015 he was Chair of the International Advisory Board of the Canberra-based Centre for Nuclear Non-Proliferation and Disarmament, and remains the Patron and Emeritus Convenor of the Asia Pacific Leadership Network on Nuclear Non-Proliferation and Disarmament. He is also the Chancellor of the Australian National University.
He has written or edited eleven books including A Cabinet Diary, Inside the Hawke-Keating Government, and the new book he discusses in this podcast Incorrigible Optimist.
Due to copyright issues we are not always able to provide podcasts of our events. The recent event with Richard Flanagan, unfortunately falls into this category (as did the Tim Winton and the Alexander McCall-Smith events)
Steven Lang July 14 2017
In this podcast Outspoken organiser and interviewer swaps chairs and is interviewed by the marvellous Kate Evans from Radio National about his new novel, Hinterland, which is set in the fictional town of Winderran.
A C Grayling March 28 2017
A C Grayling is a genuine example of that much bandied about thing, a most remarkable man. Born in Rhodesia, raised in Nyasaland, he discovered a love for philosophy at the age of twelve, going on to study at ever more prestigious institutions, culminating in Magdelene College, Oxford.
Apart from being the author of thirty books he writes widely on contemporary issues, including war crimes, euthenasia, secularism, the legalisation of drugs and human rights. He founded the New College of The Humanities, an independent undergraduate college in London, where he is presently the Master, and was, just this year, awarded the Commander of the British Empire (CBE) for his services to philosophy.
His most recent book, The Age of Genius, the Seventeenth Century and the Invention of the Modern Mind, argues that the mind-set of modern times was established in the 1600s, amid terrible war and great injustice. His contention is that, despite such turmoil, this was the period in which ideas of magic and revelation, and the dead hand of religious law, first gave way to science and the rational, leading the way to the Enlightenment and the modern world as we know it. It is a work of philosophy but also of history, following the lives of some of the most significant figures from the period.
Shelley Davidow, March 28 2017
Shelley Davidow is the author of Whisperings in the Blood, a memoir in which immigrant voyages, repeated from one generation to the next, form the basis of an extraordinary story that explores the heartache and emotional legacies created by those who leave their homelands forever. It tells the story of her grandfather, Jacob Frank, who leaves his village in Lithuania to sail to America, of her mother, leaving America to go to South Africa, and her own voyage repeating these and other journeys before settling in Australia. Shelley now lives on the Sunshine Coast.
Malachy Tallack, March 1 2017
Malachy Tallack is from the Shetland Isles, as far north in Scotland as you can go. He attracted a lot of attention with his first book, 60 Degrees North, an account of his journey around the world along the line of the 60th latitude. It was a book that Robert MacFarlane described as brave and beautiful, chosen by BBC Radio 4 as Book of the Week. He was in Australia to promote his new work, The Un-Discovered Islands, a study on islands of imagination, deception and human error. Also well-known as a singer songwriter with four albums to his name, in the final ten minutes of this podcast Malachy plays a couple of his songs.
Richard Fidler, October 2016
Richard Fidler discusses his history of the Byzantine empire as described in his recent book Ghost Empire.
1 hour and five minutes.
Kari Gislason October 2016
Kari Gislason discusses his recent novel The Ashburner.
Kari and Richard Fidler, above, are good friends and travelled to Maleny for this event together (as they have to various parts of the world). Kari comes back on to the stage at the end of Richard Fidler's conversation to take questions.
Mireille Juchau July 2 2016
The World Without Us, Mireille's third novel, is set somewhere in the Hinterland of NSW's north coast, and concerns the Muller family, Stefan, Evangeline and their two daughters. Stefan, a beekeeper, is originally from Germany, while Evangeline grew up on a commune in the hills behind where they live. The story is woven around the absence of a third daughter, Pip, and the way they each deal with the grief her loss has provoked. At the same time it also braids within its cloth the radically changing landscape wrought by the work miners and loggers, as well as the mysterious failing of Stefan’s hives.
The novel has attracted remarkable reviews:
Alberto Manguel, writing in the Guardian says, Juchau’s style is perfectly poised, elegant and restrained. Almost any page of this astonishing novel offers proof of a writer of great poetic power… [it is] a revelation, a masterly story involving the refuge of silence, the fate of bees, and the shadows of old sins.
Elspeth muir july 2 2016
Tallking about her book Wasted, Text 2016
In 2009 Elspeth Muir’s youngest brother, Alexander, finished his last university exam and went out with some mates on the town. Later that night he wandered to the Story Bridge. He put his phone, wallet, T-shirt and thongs on the walkway, climbed over the railing, and jumped thirty metres into the Brisbane River below.
Three days passed before police divers pulled his body out of the water. When Alexander had drowned, his blood-alcohol reading was almost five times the legal limit for driving.
Why do some of us drink so much, and what happens when we do? Fewer young Australians are drinking heavily, but the rates of alcohol abuse and associated problems—from blackouts to sexual assaults and one-punch killings—are undiminished.
Magda Szubanski October 15 2015
Magda Szubanski is one of Australia’s most beloved performers, most famous for her role in Kath and Kim as Sharon Strzelecki, but also for her work in the comedy sketch programs Fast Forward, the D-Generation, and, of course, as Esme Hoggett in the film Babe.
In this new and extraordinary memoir, Reckoning, Magda describes her journey of self-discovery from a suburban childhood haunted by the demons of her father’s espionage activities and the secret awareness of her sexuality, to the complex dramas of adulthood and her need to find out the truth about herself and her family. With courage and compassion she addresses her own frailties and fears, and asks the big questions about life, about the shadows we inherit and the gifts we pass on. Heartbreaking, joyous, intimate and utterly captivating, Reckoning, announces the arrival of a fearless writer and natural storyteller. It will touch the lives of its readers.
Approximately 1 hour.
Paul Williams October 15 2015
Paul Williams is Program Coordinator in Creative Writing at Sunshine Coast University and the author of several short stories and novels. His most recent book is Cokcraco, an exhilarating, playful and witty novel about writing, identity and literary KritiKs.
Some comments from reviews:
'Ever since Don Quixote, novelists have been taking the piss. In Cokcraco Paul Williams does exactly that, turning the full beam of his satirical spotlight on the civil wars in university departments, the cultish bunkum of literary theory, the self-obsession of creative writing courses and the self-flagellation of white liberal guilt… a strange, funny, intelligent and quite unforgettable novel. What Flaubert did for parrots, Mr Williams has done for the humble roach.' Jeffrey Poacher
Tim Flannery September 8 2015
Professor Tim Flannery is one of Australia’s leading writers on climate change. An internationally acclaimed scientist, explorer and conservationist, he was named Australian of the Year in 2007.
He has held various academic positions including Professor at the University of Adelaide, director of the South Australian Museum in Adelaide, Principal Research Scientist at the Australian Museum and Visiting Chair in Australian Studies at Harvard University in the Department of Organismic and Evolutionary Biology.
His books include Throwim Way Leg, Here on Earth, The Future Eaters and The Weather Makers. Under the Gillard government he was appointed Climate Change Commissioner, with the specific task of communicating the science of climate change to the public, explaining the reasons why it is necessary to price carbon. In this podcast Professor Flannery talks about his new book The Atmosphere of Hope, which, in the lead up to the December talks in Paris, gives an overview of where climate science is now and what can be done.
Kate Holden September 8 2015
Kate Holden is the author of the memoirs In My Skin and The Romantic, Italian Nights and Days. In My Skin was nominated for many awards and was published in twelve countries. Her stories and columns have appeared regularly in The Age as well as The Monthly, Cleo, New Woman and the Weekend Australian.
Kate Grenville September 2 2015
Kate Grenville is one of Australia’s most popular and best-known writers. Her novel The Secret River won the Commonwealth Writer’s Prize and was short-listed for the Man Booker, the Miles Franklin and the IMPAC Awards. Her earlier novel, The Idea of Perfection, won The Orange Prize in 2001. Grenville’s other novels include Sarah Thornhill, The Lieutenant, Lilian’s Story, Dark Places and Joan Makes History.
In this podcast she discusses with Steven Lang her new book: One Life: My Mother's Story, a deeply moving homage to her mother by one of Australia’s finest writers.
Olivera Simic September 2 2015
Olivera Simic is the author of Surviving Peace, a Political Memoir, a heartfelt account of life before, during and after the Bosnian War and the NATO bombing of Serbia in 1999. Simić provides a greater understanding of the Balkan Wars while ensuring we don’t forget the horrors and enduring impact of any war. Combining an academic sensibility with personal experience she describes how she found the determination to build a new life when the old one was irretrievable.
JOHN BIRMINGHAM JULY 22 2015
John Birmingham is the author of the cult classic He Died With a Falafel in His Hand; the award-winning history Leviathan; the Axis of Time series and the Disappearance trilogy. He contributes to a wide range of newspapers and magazines including the Sydney Morning Herald, The Brisbane Times and The Monthly on topics as diverse as the future of coal (and media) as well as national security. He began his working life as a research officer with the Defence Department's Office of Special Clearances and Records.
In 2015 he's taken the radical step of publishing the three Dave Hooper books all at once (none of this business of waiting around for a year for the sequel with Mr Birmingham).
The starting point for these books is our insatiable thirst for energy… out in the Gulf of Mexico, the oil rigs are working overtime. One of them (Deepwater Horizon, if you like) has drilled too deep. But what they’ve released isn’t oil, it’s all the monsters of mythology, and I mean all of them, spewing out of holes broken through the wall between the worlds. Fortunately, or perhaps not, one of the things that emerged has got itself killed by Dave Hooper, the balding, overweight, over-sexed safety manager on the rig, and, in the moment of dying, has transferred its nature and power to him. The three novels (which Birmingham coyly states, get better with altitude) Emergence, Resistance and Ascendance follow the journey Dave has to make to save humanity, and himself.
The thing about Birmingham is that he has no, or few, pretensions. This extravagant scenario becomes, in his hands, a witty, clever, incredibly fast-paced re-working of the super-hero save-the-world-action genre.
Andrew Mcmillen July 22 2015
Andrew is a freelance journalist and author.
His first book, Talking Smack: Honest Conversations About Drugs, was published by UQP in July 2014.
He also hosts Penmanship, a podcast about Australian writing culture, which features in-depth interviews with Australians who earn a living from working with words.
Andrew’s journalism has been published in, amongst other places, Rolling Stone, Good Weekend, Wired, The Guardian, The Monthly, The Australian, Qweekend, GQ Australia, The Sydney Morning Herald, Backchannel and, just this week The Saturday Paper.
Henry Reynolds october 24 2014
Henry Reynolds is Australia’s pre-eminent historian. In the early eighties he single-handedly changed the way Australian history was conducted when he shone a light on the way the country had been settled with his book The Other Side of the Frontier.
His work prompted a flowering of study about Aboriginal-White relations throughout the two hundred years since white settlement. Reynolds himself went on to write more than twelve books focusing on the subject, including the best selling Why Weren’t We Told?, a very personal account of how he came to understand that he, like most people in Australia, had a distorted view of the country’s past. The research he undertook played a major part in the Wik and Mabo judgements, indeed he was a close friend of Eddie Mabo.
Mr Reynolds is in conversation here about his most recent book, Forgotten War. This work draws on the many studies undertaken in recent years to tell the story of the Frontier Wars, and to ask why it is there are no official memorials or commemorations to them; indeed, why it should be that it is even more controversial to discuss them now than it was a hundred years ago. Kate Grenville writes of the book: ‘A brilliant light shone into a dark forgetfulness: ground-breaking, authoritative, compelling.'
Ellen van Neerven October 24 2014
A conversation with last year’s David Unaipon Award winning author Ellen van Neerven about her debut novel Heat and Light. Ellen’s writing has appeared widely in publications such as McSweeney’s and the Review of Australian Fiction. She works at the State Library of Queensland as part of the ‘black&write’ Indigenous writing and editing project. She’s the editor of the digital collection Writing Black: New Indigenous Writing from Australia.
Graeme Simsion October 6 2014
Australian author Graeme Simsion’s first novel, The Rosie Project, was an international publishing phenomenon, selling over a million copies in more than forty countries. The novel's hero is, according to The Guardian, one of those rare fictional characters – like Adrian Mole or Bridget Jones – destined to take up residence in the popular consciousness. In the highly anticipated sequel, The Rosie Effect, Don Tillman and Rosie are married and living in New York. Don has been teaching while Rosie completes her secondyear at Columbia Medical School. Just as Don is about to announce that his philandering best friend from Australia is coming to stay, he discovers Rosie is pregnant.
Don instantly becomes an expert in all things obstetric. But between immersing himself in a new research study on parenting and implementing the Standardised Meal System (pregnancy version) Don’s old weaknesses resurface. While he strives to get the technicalities right he gets the emotions wrong, and risks losing Rosie.
Sally Piper October 6 2014
Sally's novel Grace's Table is a 'wise and tender novel about food, friendship and marriage...'
It's a delightful slow burn of a book, which places the kitchen at the centre of the home, the room in which nourishment is given and received and, in the end, everything is revealed.
‘the women in this novel don’t heed the rules for ageing quietly… they pull us into their past and present with their wise-cracking talk and acerbic wit...'
Kristina Olsson author of Boy Lost
Karen Joy Fowler 8 Sept 2014
Karen Joy Fowler is the author of six novels and four collections of short stories. She's the winner of several major awards, including two Nebulas and the PEN/Faulkner, this last for We Are All completely Beside Ourselves, the novel she was primarily discussing on her tour of Australia. At the time of the interview the book had been long-listed for the Man Booker Prize. Two days later it was bumped up into the short-list.
Karen is talking to Steven Lang.
Claire Dunn 8 Sept 2014
Claire is the author of My Year Without Matches, Escaping the City in Search of the Wild. She worked for many years as a campaigner for The Wilderness Society but is now a free-lance journalist, writing for The Age and the Sydney Morning Herald, while studying post-graduate psychology. Claire is passionate advocate for ‘rewilding’ our inner and outer landscapes and she facilitates nature based reconnection retreats and contemporary wilderness rites of passage. She currently lives in Newcastle.
Claire is talking to Steven Lang